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Author Topic:   Colour Blindness
DWM1983
Co-pilot
posted 04-06-2004 09:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DWM1983   Click Here to Email DWM1983     Edit/Delete Message
Hi, I was wondering if anybody know what the regulations for flying are, if the pilot is colour blind (can see colour, but has dificulty at time telling the difference - not vision in greyscale) - I know that in the military here in the UK, you cannot fly, but i was wondering about civilian flying in this country/USA/australia? also, does anyone know if there are different regulations if flying a micro-lite?

Thanks a lot,

Dunc

ChristopherC
Co-pilot
posted 04-09-2004 10:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ChristopherC   Click Here to Email ChristopherC     Edit/Delete Message
dunc, in the USA you can go to an FSDO (Flight Standards District Office) and take what's called a SODA (Statement of Demonstrated Abilty) test. It simply involves showing an FAA examiner that you are capable of flying your aircraft.
As I understand it; color-blindness is fairly common in men...I have a friend who got his licence and can't tell a green light from a white light. His problem was he couldn't tell green from white light gun signals...once he realized that in the air there are no white light gun signal from the tower (in case of radio failure) he was home free!!!
I have no central vision in my right eye due to a viral infection...my periferal (sp) vision is fine ( I still fly Remote Control Helicopters...) as is the vision in my left eye. Though I can never get a Class 1 Medical certificate and fly Commercial, I can and did get a Class 2 which will enable me to be a Flight Instructor (my goal) and fly for fun!
The steps are simple in the US: contact the FAA in Oklahoma City, explain your problem and they will walk you thru the prosess. You will be sent a letter of authrozation to take the SODA test and a name of someone at your regional FSDO. Make your flight test apointment...show up and fly...get your waiver! It's good for as long as you're problem remains unchanged.
Contrary to what I've been led to believe; the FAA people in both the Oklahoma City and the Baton Rouge LA. FSDO were nice, helpful and went the extra mile to help me attain my licence...(thanks Mr. Micellei!!!).
I hope this helps you...

Chris Carlson

Jurgen
Co-pilot
posted 06-28-2004 06:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jurgen   Click Here to Email Jurgen     Edit/Delete Message
Hello,

I'm Capt. J.Louw

I already sended an E-mail to the Dunc Fellow. but this is one for the Co-pilot!! I'm a Capt. on a private jet and i'm color blind. but there are many ways to help you're eyes to become normal again. But the thing is if you go for an eye test in america if you are color blind they will give you a Class 1 medical cause there are no laws in America about color blindness and flying. I am color blind and they gave me a class one medical in America. but i was not allowed to fly in South - Africa cause the law and all the rules and regulations are much higher over here as in America. So incase the Dunc fella is going to do his medical in the usa he will be able to fly but only in america, so if he just do all the things i told him to do he will be able to get he's class one medical and will be allowed to fly all over the world. but ya..if he really want's to fly he will have to do allot for it. (Incase you would like to know what color blindness can stop - Just send me an E - Mail)

Kind regards
Capt.J.Louw

Springbok305@hotmail.com

------------------
Capt. J.Louw

seyhan
Co-pilot
posted 07-29-2004 01:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for seyhan   Click Here to Email seyhan     Edit/Delete Message
id like to know, please email me how to beat colour deficiancy. iv looked hi and low for a cure and i believe a cure is non existent. iv wanted to fly proffesionaly all my life but best im allowed to achieve is my ppl here in the uk. if you really have a cure. il owe you big.

sey306@aol.com

cwlh
Co-pilot
posted 07-30-2004 01:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cwlh   Click Here to Email cwlh     Edit/Delete Message
I can certainly tell you about the situation in Canada. I also cannot tell the difference between white and green. I have a class 1 medical, commercial licence with instrument and instructor rating. My licence is annotated so that:

1. I'm not allowed to fly at night

2. I must have a working 2-way radio when in a class C control zone (because I might not be able to see the coloured lights that the tower is always shining at aircraft)

Otherwise I have no restrictions. Obviously not being able to fly at night would prevent me getting a job with an airline but for GA flying, it's not a problem.

Of source, if they changed the colour of the light guns from red, white, green to red, white and blue there would be no problem for any of us. Or, even better, flashing at different rates.

------------------

seyhan
Co-pilot
posted 07-31-2004 08:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for seyhan   Click Here to Email seyhan     Edit/Delete Message
i find this whole colour vision thing really annoying! i dont think people understand what colour deficiancy really is. even if one pilot on an airline has a red/green deficiancy it isnt an issue, people dont understand how minor it is. im not talking greyscale colour blind here (that id understand), im talking common red green, or white blue deficincy. even when flying in command youre with another pilot on an airliner any way so??? thats one thing! a way to sort the problem out would also be to change the colours of the flashing lights (come on how simples that!)yet another way is to simply wear coloured lenses that are available whilst flying as someone without 20/20 vision would wear glasses.... i could go on and on with solutions to stop the jaa from ending peoples dreams without an understanding the problem. if iv lived uptill now without realising im "colourblind" and without haveng a single problem with this up till now the age of 25, i know for a fact i can pilot a plane.

[This message has been edited by seyhan (edited 07-31-2004).]

vinphizz
Co-pilot
posted 10-13-2004 03:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for vinphizz     Edit/Delete Message
Hi Seyhan,

There is ABSOLUTELY NO cure for what is called "color blindness", because it is NOT A DISEASE. It is simply a different way of perceiving colors from the way the vast majority of the population does. Since it is a genetic issue, unless you can change the makeup of your genes there is nothing you can do (with the exception of picking different parents).


In most cases, the gene for color blindness (a terrible name for the "problem") is passed from the grandfather to a male grandchild through the mother. This is what is called a "sex-linked trait". The mother is called a "carrier" and she exhibits none of the characteristics. Very occasionally a daughter will be color-blind IF the mother is a carrier and the father is color-blind.

flyngramma
Co-pilot
posted 10-15-2004 08:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for flyngramma   Click Here to Email flyngramma     Edit/Delete Message
My hangar mate is color blind. He introduced me to his girlfriend and at the time, she was a blond. The next time I saw her, her hair was darker in color. I mentioned it to him and his reply was, 'I wouldn't notice the difference. I'm color blind.'

seyhan
Co-pilot
posted 10-15-2004 12:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for seyhan   Click Here to Email seyhan     Edit/Delete Message
thanks

Bradley Stinson
Co-pilot
posted 07-22-2005 02:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bradley Stinson   Click Here to Email Bradley Stinson     Edit/Delete Message
Hey i'm red green colour blind (slightly weak in red) however I never noticed untill I was told. I have been driving for a year without one problem. And even managed to drive in a foriegn country without a problem. So I am surpriced to be told that flying will be a problem for me. I want to take the lantan test as I think I should be able tyo pass this. Being able to fly has always been a big dream of mine and it feels like I am being discriminated against becaus of an ununderstood problem. I woul also like to shed light on a cure that is being developed.

Dr Nitze has specialised in colour blindness and gene theropy and has found that a cure is likely.

"Gene Research Sheds Light on Cure for Colorblindness

Colorblindness can likely be cured by gene therapy, according to Medical College of Wisconsin researchers who are conducting a treatment trial designed to discover what happens when a specialized set of normal genes is injected directly into the eye.

"I'm sure that, ultimately, gene therapy will cure colorblindness," said Jay Neitz, PhD, Medical College of Wisconsin Professor of Cellular Biology, Neurobiology and Anatomy. "It's not a matter of whether it will or not, it's a matter of when. I think the probability is extremely high."

Usually a hereditary condition that is present at birth, colorblindness afflicts more than nine million people in the US. Normal eyes distinguish color through three different photoreceptors located in the retina, some for red, some for blue and some for green. When one set of these many photoreceptors is missing due to genetic mutation, color-vision deficiency occurs to varying degrees depending on the severity of the mutation and which color receptors have been lost.

Dr. Neitz is collaborating on the gene treatment trial with his wife, Maureen Neitz, PhD, who is on the Eye Institute staff and a Medical College Professor of Ophthalmology, and Eye Institute surgeon Thomas B. Connor, MD, Medical College Associate Professor of Ophthalmology. (Quotes in this article are from Dr. Jay Neitz.)

The project is focused on the cone-shaped photoreceptors in the eye, which are responsible for defining color and visual acuity in normal light. The eye employs other photoreceptors, shaped like rods, for vision in dim light.

"If something happens with one of the cone photoreceptors, you have colorblindness," said Dr. Neitz. "If something happens with two out of the three, if they're the red and green ones - the blue cones are so rare - you end up with a blinding condition. So the blue cones are just as important for color vision but they're not very important for the rest of our vision. You can lose your green cones, too, and maybe those would influence your vision. That person's vision may not be 100% normal, but pretty close."

Same Genes Affect AMD
The research into gene therapy for colorblindness may also have applications in diagnosing and treating age-related macular degeneration (AMD), the leading cause of blindness in older populations in the US, because the same cells are involved. In colorblindness, genetic mutation kills off certain photoreceptors at a very young age in the life of those cells. Photoreceptor cells are killed much later on in AMD, but it is believed that they're also doomed by genetic factors.

"The same cells that create color vision are the ones that give us vision, said Dr. Neitz. "It's not like they're different. The very same cells that are affected in colorblindness are the ones that are affected in age-related macular degeneration. If certain kinds of things go wrong it gives you colorblindness. Other things go wrong, and you get age-related macular degeneration. In both cases, it's the loss of function in those cones that give you a loss of vision."

Images in Dr. Neitz' office, looking very much like photographs of stars in the universe, show the array of photoreceptors in the retina. Bright areas are living photoreceptors while missing photoreceptors are represented by dark "holes".

"Age-related macular degeneration also has a very large component, we believe, where the same gene that causes that (colorblind) person to lose his cones at a certain age is the same gene that cause people to lose their cones when they're 65 years old," said Dr. Neitz. "In other words, that person had a set of green cones at one time. If he hadn't had them, there would be no holes left behind.

"We believe that there is a gene mutation that caused that cell to die. So it's originally born and it lasts for some period of time. There are different kinds of mutations. Some of them are more deadly than others. That particular mutation is a very, very deadly one. Once you have it, the life span of the cone might be only two or three years. There are other mutations that are only mildly toxic, so you can go through life and your vision lasted for fifty, sixty or seventy years. Ultimately, the cone will die just as those cones did (in the colorblind person whose cones died very young)."

Putting Normal Genes Into the Eye
In the colorblindness trial, normal genes are being injected directly into the retinas of animals to take the place of the missing genes and, it is hoped, confer normal color vision.

"Just as there are three different kinds of cone photoreceptors in the eye - red, green and blue - each one of those is encoded by a different gene," said Dr. Neitz. "There's a red photo-pigment gene, a green one, and a blue one. Those are then expressed in those different cones to give you the red, green and blue cones.

"In general, we can take a blood sample from someone, and since every one of your cells contain all of your DNA, we can look at the cone photo-pigment genes and see if there are mutations. In the case of colorblindness, we have been able to identify the kinds of mutations in the cone photo-pigment genes that underlie colorblindness. Basically, we have outlined the genetic basis for colorblindness."

"For our particular gene we have already piloted the whole retrovirus that we're using and already put it into rat eyes," said Dr. Neitz. "We know that it will attack the photoreceptors and turn on inside the photoreceptors. The question is, can we get it to work in this monkey model and if it does work, does it confer color vision?"

The researchers are using a retrovirus to take advantage of cellular mechanics in the same way genetic therapy is used for other diseases, Dr. Neitz said, adding that the eye has the advantage of being a closed vessel so gene therapy can be targeted very directly. Photoreceptors are located in the retina, the back layer of the eye. To introduce the normal genes, the retina is clinically detached very briefly from a nutritive eye layer directly in front of it, creating a space in which a fluid can bathe all of the photoreceptors before the layers come back together.

Retrovirus "One-Ups" Virus
"What's in this fluid is the missing gene," said Dr. Neitz. "The problem is to get it into the genome so that it can be expressed. To do that, the gene is being carried by a retrovirus. Normally, what a virus does is attach itself to a cell. Since it doesn't have any of the machinery for copying its DNA, it uses the cellular machinery. The virus injects its own DNA into the cell, and that 'hijacks' the cell's machinery in order to replicate the DNA.

"In gene therapy we do the opposite. We one-up the virus, hijacking the mechanism that attaches itself and injects its DNA. The normal DNA sequences that are responsible for replicating the virus have been removed, because once they get into the cell they will replicate over and over again and burst the cell.

"In its place we've put the DNA that makes the human cone photo-pigment. The virus now will attach to the cell, putting the human cone photo-pigment gene in there. By mechanisms that we don't really understand that gene will ultimately integrate into the genome and become functional."

Dr. Neitz noted that this is the first trial ever of gene therapy in any animal involving the cone photoreceptors as a target. "I feel really confident about this, and since all the pieces are in place I'm hoping that it will work in a monkey within two years, he said. "If it works in a monkey we have to go to human trials and have to get FDA approval and so forth, so it could be about five years to get to the point where we're able to use the technique in humans.

"If you're interested in people's vision, it's really cone vision that's important. In the long run we're hopeful that this kind of gene therapy will become a way to treat a wide variety of blinding disorders that affect the cone photoreceptors - they're really the big target in both colorblindness and in AMD."
"

I just want to be able to fly as a carrer in the office does not appeal to me. If I could have gone through life without me or anyone else knowing there was a problem then how can it be a problem now when a stupid test is set updesigned to be impossible to anyone without perfect colour vision. They chose colours purposly that were only slightly different in reality only in very bad conditions would this become a problem and then theres always the radio and the guy sitting next to you. Sorry to rant on but I am highly frustrated by this whole thing. Anyone who has any infomation could you please let me know.

[This message has been edited by Bradley Stinson (edited 07-22-2005).]

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