posted 06-29-2003 08:39 PM            

What is your point of departure and your destination?

posted 06-30-2003 01:28 PM         

All this, and flying in unfamiliar skies over very hazardous terrain and unpredictable weather that can change in just a matter of minutes and leave you with few options is a situation that I would avoid as a new pilot.

posted 05-07-2004 01:05 AM         

First of all, if this is your first long cross-country, I'd highly advise against it. By "long" I mean more than about 800 miles. If so, you've no idea how exhausting a flight like you propose is, and I think the biggest danger would be in your own personal endurance and how we humans tend to make really poor judgements when we're exhausted and don't realize it. With mountain flying, there's virtually no room for poor judgement.

I'd have to ask a couple questions, before giving advice based on my experiences. Do you want to fly "over" the Rockies, or are you comfortable with flying the passes? What is your aircraft's range between fuel stops? Will you be at full gross on your flight or will you be lighter? Density altitude is the most serious factor, so the lighter you can weigh in at, the better your performance will be, and if you fly this trip early morning or evening, you'll have a better shot at acceptable performance. CG gives the best advice, so far. I do fully agree with him/her, and highly respect the caution advised. But, if you're determined to do it, read on.

I fly a C-150, on the West Coast, and when I want to make summer trips over the Cascades or the Rockies, all that's necessary is planning. I make sure the weather is going to be stable. I fly the passes, rather than "over" the mountains. My destinations in Idaho and Montana range between 4000' msl and 6000' msl. You, as a pilot from the midwest, have a stronger foundation in weather than many others in other areas, and this foundation will serve you well in reading the available weather data. What you propose to do in a 172 is, in my opinion, doable, with a few precautions.

1) Plan your fuel stops so as to have an hour's reserve at least, rather than the half hour required for VFR flight, because you may be diverting around storms or areas of turbulance, and at your destination you can plan on at least one go-around as you discover your ground speed to be much higher than what you're used to seeing due to density altitude. Check the facilities directories carefully, as there are some airports where go-arounds aren't possible -- do NOT go there. Get some good solid crosswind landing time under your belt... without it, you'll be flying to alternate airports.

2) When you get to the East side of the Rockies, plan a one-day stop at an airport to take some mountain flying instruction from a local CFI. No insults at all intended, but you're used to much flatter terrain, and this time spent will probably save your life. Read the NTSB reports of fatal accidents occurring when pilots unfamiliar with mountain flight ventured into terrain and weather they had no idea what to do with.

3) Fly when the temps are cooler, because your aircraft performance will be better and you'll miss the afternoon storms. This means early mornings (dawn 'til 10am) and evenings (7pm 'til dark). Do NOT fly over the mountains or thru the passes at night. Do NOT fly VFR-on-top over the mountains.

4) If you're flying the passes, you'll lose radar contact. Get an IFR chart and note the MEA's, and you'll see those areas where you can expect to be told you're not on their scopes anymore. Give them regular position reports, they appreciate knowing you're still alive. Keep a road map with you along with your charts, just in case. It's a good rule of thumb, where there are major highways or interstates, there are people - people who can find your aircraft wreckage more quickly if you make a mistake.

5) Never, never, never load up your plane with passengers, baggage and full fuel and think you're going to take off from a 3000' field in temps over 80F at 8000'msl. You might be able to do it... but there's a lot of salvage yards full of airplanes that didn't make it. Not to mention cemeteries. Memorize your POH Density Altitude charts, and subtract about 15% from the performance numbers because your plane isn't new, and you're not a trained test pilot.

6) Do an experiment - this one might save your life. At each of your destination airports, provided you have a) room, b)permission from ATC if it's a towered airport, and c) traffic permitting, note the field altitude and the temp. Get down to pattern altitude outside the pattern... fly straight and level, and slow down into a clean slow-flight configuration. Apply full power as if you were taking off, and note the rate of climb at Vy. While you're on the ground enjoying a rest and a cup of coffee, do some calculations. At 7500' and 85F, with xxx lbs. of fuel missing, your aircraft achieved 400fpm rate of climb at Vy (hypothetically). You'll be taking off with more weight after fueling. You'll lose rate of climb. Do you feel comfortable risking a 200fpm climbout? I wouldn't.

7) If you plan on flying the passes, get some practice in back home at flying 1000-1500' agl. That might be all the terrain clearance you get. Your service ceiling will deteriorate, as was mentioned in the other posts, and the higher you go the more leaning you'll have to do. Never cross a ridge with less than 1000' clearance, and never approach it head-on. Approach it at a 45 degree angle so when the likely downdraft hits you, you'll be able to turn back to lower terrain. Never fly up a valley -- if you can't achieve an altitude 1000' above the ridge you want to cross long before crossing it, either spend some time in a climbing spiral to get the altitude, or go a different route. Fly on the sunlit sides of valleys, so as to get the updrafts... the shadowy sides will be downdrafts. Thermals can make or break you.

8) Never fly near a lenticular cloud or a rotor cloud. Be aware that rotor winds can exist without any sign of clouds. Airliners have been totalled by these winds... our Cessnas stand no chance. Study up on mountain weather, mountain wave phenomenon, rotor winds...

9) Before embarking on a journey into high density altitude conditions, arrange some time with a willing instructor in your home environment. The focus of the lesson will be a) takeoffs and landings with a tailwind to simulate higher groundspeeds and lower climb rates; b) takeoffs at less than full power, to simulate reduced engine performance at higher density altitudes; c) go-arounds at less than full power, for the same reasons; and d) note-taking during the flight, to simulate the calculations you'll want to be doing during your cross-country. Load your aircraft to simulate the manner in which you'll be loaded on your proposed x-country. Provided you can find an instructor willing to do this, you will learn some very eye-opening insights about flight in challenging density altitude conditions.

9) Pack up a survival kit. Plan on food and water for 4 days, medical needs, fire starting necessities, signal devices, clothing for warmth (mountain nights can be cold even in summer), a map, a compass, knife, etc. Stow it where you can get to it, not at the bottom of the heap of baggage.

10) Read every article you can find on-line about mountain flying, and The Mountain Flying Bible. If, after taking these 10 points of advice to heart, having time with an instructor in simulation-lessons, and reading everything you can get your hands on about mountain flying, you still want to make this trip, then in my humble opinion, go for it. Be safe, be careful.

If all this sounds daunting, then the route CG recommended is an absolutely beautiful flight, slightly longer (but that's just hours-building, right?) but immensely more guaranteeing of a safe and (relatively) trouble-free flight.

posted 12-19-2004 05:41 PM         

Thanks for responding with such a long and detailed response; that's what we'll need to do this flight right. I am a good friend of Alex, and I'd be the 'considered' PIC. Just a few clarifications and questions. First of all, we'd be in the aircraft N63505. It is a Cessna 172, but is well equipped with dual nav/coms, autopilot, and *long range tanks* -> in a C172 Skyhawk, this accounts for about 50 gallons of useable fuel with 3 reserve (those three are not included in flight planning purposes). C172's burn anywhere from 6.5-8.5 gallons an hour, giving us a time range of 7.69 - 5.88 hours (let's just say 5 hours to be safe). Also, the Skyhawk I propose to fly has a max speed of 122kts, and it's safe weight capacity (not including fuel) is 970 (that is, of course, with the empty weight subtracted). My current route (I start back in the NE which is all easy and fine - I'll just outline the mountain pass for you) takes us from KLBF - KCYS (in approxametely 1:53 minutes), and then from KCYS - KSLC (in about 1:42) -> [Both of these flight times were figured with a 30 kt headwind]. Even though our other flight legs go into the 3 hour range, we've left as much time as possible for these two legs. As for the terrain flight instruction, I've flown over the appilachians a few times, but this doesn't compare to what I'd be doing by crossing the rocky mountain range. I had proposed to leave from KLBF at 7:30 am (local) and depart KCYF at (local), but this could be changed if needed. In addition, this would be during the months of December/January, which would give us better performance (due to the cooler weather), but I don't know if this provides for incliment weather as well;-) - I'm going to have to research the Rocky Mountain weather. As for losing radar contact - well it is a scary thought, and my best idea for that matter is to fly it in Flight Simulator as much as I can (the most realistic simulation I can find). In addition, you brought up very valid, good, and important points to consider about updrafts and downdrafts....I'll definantly take that into consideration. As for passes....you're going to help me with that one.....with my current flightplan...i don't know which one suits me better. I have a lot of low level flying experience; many days, due to incliment weather and flying VFR, I'm restricted to about 1,000 agl (gotta love the state). In addition, I have tons of experience with crosswind takeoffs and landings, but come to think of it, I don't have any with a tailwind (something to practice up on, eh?). I had planned to bring some type of a survival kit, but another good point that you brought up is a road map. Closer to the date on which we will fly this, I will look into purchasing one (winter of '06-'07 --- Never too early to plan a flight like this). I have found your response very helpful...but one other question - How do you propose to navigate the mountainous area? I currently have a flight plan made up covering our entire route using VOR's and GPS backup...any other suggestions? Finally, I will be flying this with another pilot, Alex, as well. A team of pilots suiting up for this task is 10x as good as a single pilot trying to accomplish a feat like this himself/herself. Thank you for your time and insight.